Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

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johnadaniels
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by johnadaniels » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:53 am

Somehow playing around turning off stuff in Slim Browser options and Internet Options the browser no longer locks up on any of the pages!!!!!

Maybe someone else having the issue can figure out which option was causing the problem.

Chenged a lot of stuff that has to due with scripting and changed internet security level from low to high.

BobH
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by BobH » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:00 am

The problem is not caused by a single site, but by the accumulation of sites you visit in a session -- high resource sites cause the problem to come on quicker. The problem is a memory leak. You use the browser intensively for long enough, and eventually it will slow down because it's not releasing memory after it's through using it. Turning scripting off won't help, nor will anything else. (Maybe Increasing the memory in your machine will help, rebooting will help.) The problem seems intermittent only because it takes different times (because you're visiting different pages each session) to use up all your resources each session....

When will it be fixed, Hans? I've switched to Firefox until this Slimbrowser issue is solved.

Hans
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by Hans » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:14 pm

BobH wrote:The problem is not caused by a single site, but by the accumulation of sites you visit in a session -- high resource sites cause the problem to come on quicker. The problem is a memory leak. You use the browser intensively for long enough, and eventually it will slow down because it's not releasing memory after it's through using it. Turning scripting off won't help, nor will anything else. (Maybe Increasing the memory in your machine will help, rebooting will help.) The problem seems intermittent only because it takes different times (because you're visiting different pages each session) to use up all your resources each session....
I would have to disagree. I use SlimBrowser - extensively, and virtually exclusively - to view many websites at the same time. Right now I have 57 tabs open, which is pretty normal for me. I rarely reboot, and have not for several days. These same windows have been open all the time; in fact, I've actually closed about 25 or 30 other tabs I was viewing earlier today. If what you said were true, then I'd be experiencing the issue. But I'm not, nor have I ever. On any of the machines I use SlimBrowser on. Image I recently upgraded from 2gb of RAM to 4gb, but I didn't have the problem either when I was only at 2gb (in fact, I only upgraded to 4gb of RAM because I got it for free.) I have also tested it on an XP system with 512mb of RAM, and had 50+ tabs open. Still couldn't duplicate the problem.
BobH wrote:When will it be fixed, Hans? I've switched to Firefox until this Slimbrowser issue is solved.
As I've said before, it's difficult, if not impossible, to "fix" something that can't be duplicated consistently, which means you can't find the root cause of the problem, which means you can't come up with a solution. Not only that, but I'm just a moderator here, Stephen is the programmer, and I don't have any inside info on what changes or fixes he does. Image I know he's aware of this thread, but AFAIK, he's unable to duplicate the issue as well.

Drugwash
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by Drugwash » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:31 pm

May have something to do with in-page filtering options (have I said that before?) I know I'm having difficulties on pages with GIF animations, IFrames, JS. Even with a completely free system (no other apps running), my homepage on MyYearbook.com still takes up to half minute to become available.
Using an ANSI OS (Win98SE) may also add to the situation.

BobH
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by BobH » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:28 pm

"As I've said before, it's difficult, if not impossible, to "fix" something that can't be duplicated consistently"

You indicated you were aware of a memory leak.

Tell you the truth, Hans, with this problem, Slimbrowser is pretty much unusable for my purposes. I hung on for months, tried to help find the problem. But I think I've had it.

Hans
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by Hans » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:56 pm

BobH wrote:You indicated you were aware of a memory leak.
It's not so much a "memory leak" as it is "SlimBrowser doesn't release the memory used for the tabs". Right now, with the aforementioned 57 (+/-) tabs open, SlimBrowser is using 450,376k memory. It doesn't grow on it's own (which would be a true "leak"), but rather the memory allocated to the tabs is held onto. This may be by design, since SlimBrowser might be watching how many tabs are open at any given time and basically pre-allocating RAM, thinking the user will use those tabs again, and therefore the application already has the RAM reserved for use.
BobH wrote:Tell you the truth, Hans, with this problem, Slimbrowser is pretty much unusable for my purposes. I hung on for months, tried to help find the problem. But I think I've had it.
The thing is, it's simply not consistent. I know of many, many users (myself included) who don't experience anything like this. There's *something* causing it, but as I've said before, that "something" is the proverbial needle in a haystack. There has to be be something running, or some setting, that's common to the machines that have the problem, vs. the ones that don't. Unfortunately, without access to a system that has the problem, I can't determine what that might be. Believe me, I'd love to say "here's the problem, and here's the fix", but it's not that simple. :?

Drugwash
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by Drugwash » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:28 am

Something came to my mind: there's this list of closed pages in the File menu, maybe the memory used by those pages remains allocated in case the user wants to restore them. In this case, clearing the list should theoretically free that memory.
I don't have anything on that list right now since I've just open the browser so I can't prove my theory, but maybe some of you could.

And Hans, you said "Right now, with the aforementioned 57 (+/-) tabs open, SlimBrowser is using 450,376k memory." Well, I only have 256MB total RAM and in Win9x it's about System, User & GDI resources, which constantly drop (not dramatically, but they do) with each open page. So it would be wonderful if these resources could be freed dynamically, or at least when clearing the Recently closed pages list.

Anyway, I've been using SlimBrowser for too many years to give it up just like that. ;)

Hans
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by Hans » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:00 am

Drugwash wrote:Something came to my mind: there's this list of closed pages in the File menu, maybe the memory used by those pages remains allocated in case the user wants to restore them. In this case, clearing the list should theoretically free that memory.
I don't have anything on that list right now since I've just open the browser so I can't prove my theory, but maybe some of you could.
After uninstalling Adobe Acrobat 8 Pro, having to reboot, and installing Adobe Acrobat 9 Pro, then finally re-starting SlimBrowser, I closed a bunch of windows I wasn't really looking at. Right now I have 33 pages open, and 24 listed on the "Recently Closed Sites" list. Slimbrowser is using 229,840k RAM. I cleared the list, and it dropped to 229,700k, then dropped to 229,688k a few seconds later, and the 229,564k. So yes, you do appear correct, however it appears to be be "not much". :( Perhaps it will drop further, but I would think it should have already if it were going to.
Drugwash wrote:And Hans, you said "Right now, with the aforementioned 57 (+/-) tabs open, SlimBrowser is using 450,376k memory." Well, I only have 256MB total RAM and in Win9x it's about System, User & GDI resources, which constantly drop (not dramatically, but they do) with each open page. So it would be wonderful if these resources could be freed dynamically, or at least when clearing the Recently closed pages list.
Seriously, it's SO time to get you some more RAM. I mean, at least 512mb. I have a bunch of 128mb and 256mb DDR and DIMMs laying around. If you can use them, let me know. They're just collecting dust in my cabinet.
Drugwash wrote:Anyway, I've been using SlimBrowser for too many years to give it up just like that. ;)
I agree. It's still the best tabbed browser, and still free! :D

Drugwash
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by Drugwash » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:07 pm

I've checked the resources before and after clearing the list and there was no sign of improvement. Agreed, a few dozen kilobytes do not account for 'eureka', unfortunately.

As for the RAM... yeah, the more, the better, they say. However, Win98SE cannot deal with more than 512MB officially, not without certain tweaks in system.ini. I do remember though, the times - not long ago - when I was running a 200MHz PentiumMMX with 64MB of RAM and that was enough for my daily tasks, eMule included. When, oh when, did these applications become so hungry? *sigh*

I couldn't dare ask you to go through all the trouble it would take, just to get rid of those memory sticks, especially if you're on the other side of the earth. :) But I do appreciate your offer.

And yes, SlimBrowser is still the best and I do hope with all my heart it will stay that way; I do consider it as one of my best friends. Thanks go to Stephen! 8)

Hans
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by Hans » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:59 pm

Drugwash wrote:...As for the RAM... yeah, the more, the better, they say. However, Win98SE cannot deal with more than 512MB officially, not without certain tweaks in system.ini. I do remember though, the times - not long ago - when I was running a 200MHz PentiumMMX with 64MB of RAM and that was enough for my daily tasks, eMule included. When, oh when, did these applications become so hungry? *sigh*
Actually, Win98SE officially supports up to 1gb, and can handle up to 2gb with certain tweaks. But since you have 256mb, so if we at least double your RAM to 512mb... Image
Drugwash wrote:...I couldn't dare ask you to go through all the trouble it would take, just to get rid of those memory sticks, especially if you're on the other side of the earth. :) But I do appreciate your offer.
It's really no trouble. Seriously. If you feel bad or anything, you can pay the shipping or something. Or send me something from Romania. I hear the food is pretty good, and, well, I've heard the women can be pretty hot. Image It can't be that much for s/h, though. What CPU do you use? I have - literally - about 40 spare ones sitting around here. Plenty of Pentium-III Slot-1 processors, several AMDs, you name it, I probably have it (older ones, that is. Actually, I have a few newer ones too.) I can't bring myself to throw anything hardware-wise out; what if someone might need them one day? Hey, wouldn't that be you? Image Heck, i even have several copies of Windows XP (mostly Home, but I think I might have a Pro or ten left.) Several copies of Vista as well, though all but two are Home Premium (the other two are Ultimate.) We can pimp your rig! :lol:

Really, how much could s/h be for a processor and a few sticks of RAM? Image I mean, they can't weigh more than a few ounces...and it's almost Xmas time, right? Image
Drugwash wrote:...And yes, SlimBrowser is still the best and I do hope with all my heart it will stay that way; I do consider it as one of my best friends. Thanks go to Stephen! 8)
I agree. Image I honestly don't know why Microsoft hasn't just bought Slimbrowser and paid him a buttload of money. Image I think people who use Windows would be a lot happier if SlimBrowser were the default browser out of the box.

I'd love it if Slimbrowser looked more like IE7, though. Probably could write a skin to do that...Image Eh, I'm lazy and it works, maybe I'll get around to it one of these days.

Drugwash
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by Drugwash » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:34 am

Man, you sure put your Santa suit on, haven't you? :D Lemme tell you one thing: 2 years ago, another kind soul, somewhere in Delaware, offered himself to buy and send me a HDD and a DVD-RW, both at $100 tops. However, s/h costs would've been around $200, he said. Luckily, a friend of mine was in the States with business and he managed to bring me those pieces of hardware personally. I have no idea how those shipping services work out there, but I really think it's too much.
Besides, AFAIK they won't allow food shipping and as for women... I wish I had one for myself, let alone sending one over to you. :lol:

Hardware-wise, I am of the same opinion: never throw anything away. I stil have a couple of 286 boards laying around as well as my old 486 IBM PS/2 ValuePoint (no PSU though) as well as that 200MHz MMX, but they're just pieces of the past, nostalgic memories of what used to be good times.

As for the current hardware, a 667MHz Pentium III (socket 357, O/C at 700MHz) does the job. Resources go quite low due to me using a GeForce4 Ti4200 in dual-view with 2 15" CRT monitors (which ruined my eyesight badly within the last 2 years). Thing is, I'm not only using Win98SE due to relatively low hardware specs, but it's more like a wise choice, for a few reasons that were already largely elaborated at the MSFN.org forums by other members. In a nutshell, I wanna be the master of my computer and not the other way around; extremely hard with XP and an utopia with Vista. ;)

Oh and while you're at MSFN (if you can find any spare time for that), you'll find a thread about running Win98SE with more than 1GB of RAM; people's experience and advices on how to. But that's directly related to recent hardware that's probably not supposed to run 9x at all. My mobo doesn't accept more than 512MB RAM by design, IIRC (Soyo SY-6VBA 133).

I do have another mobo - although it seems to be a bit faulty - but it's AMD based and for one that has always worked with Intel, it'd be quite a change. It's a Syntax SV266M (same as ECS L7VMM, I think) and I do have a socket A Sempron CPU (borrowed from a friend of mine) but the mobo's FSB is 266 while the CPU can handle 333; a bit of a waste, I'd say - it only "sees" it at 1200MHz. It does accept up to 2GB DDR though, but only has 2 memory slots. :(

Another mobo I have - given away by another friend of mine as faulty (freezes or sudden resets) - is a MSI 875P-Neo-FIS2R, supporting Intel P4 FSB800, 4 x DualChannel DDR400, etc. But I haven't been able to test it since I have no CPU+Cooler+fan for it and considering what my friend said...

Anyway, I said all that just because I still am a hardware enthusiast (although I have been forced to give up electronics due to rapid degradation of my eyesight). I'd love to chit-chat over a beer/whisky but it'll have to wait until teleportation is available (and free). :) One thing I don't agree with: having MS buy SlimBrowser over would only destroy it, since they primarily (or should I say, exclusively?) care about income, not people's needs. So I'm glad SB is still in Stephen's hands (and he might as well spank us for sliding so far off-topic here :D ).

And to somehow get back on track, here's a recent screenshot of my dual-view environment (taken to report some bugs with an AutoHotkey script), where you can see SlimBrowser looking great, natively skinned under Windows98SE (!!!) by UberSkin - one of MSFN's wonders. ;) You wouldn't have thought ugly 9x could look that good, would you? :P But it does, thanks to a young russian guy. It feels so good when people do good deeds and makes one renew the hope that someday we might all live in peace.

Image

johnadaniels
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by johnadaniels » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:28 pm

Hello,

The issues with the slowness or freezing happens if you have excute scripts checked under SlimBrowser download control options. Unchecking also fixes memory leak issue.

Some websites will not work properly like http://www.gametrailers.com

Whatever scripts that are running are getting locked up with SlimBrowser.

Can someone confirm this?

Go to: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22596556/ and open up the links at the bottom of the article in new tabs and see Slim lock up and then uncheck the excute scripts and restart Slim and then go back to the site and you will see how fast it opens.

Just noticed since turning off the scripts that the insert URL does not work in this posting:-)

Maybe you could turn on Slim scripts and then go to Control Panel and then to Internet Options and Security and Custom Level and try to figure out which option is causing the problem.

BarryFS
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by BarryFS » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:13 pm

johnadaniels wrote:Hello,

The issues with the slowness or freezing happens if you have excute scripts checked under SlimBrowser download control options. Unchecking also fixes memory leak issue.

Some websites will not work properly like http://www.gametrailers.com

Whatever scripts that are running are getting locked up with SlimBrowser.

Can someone confirm this?

Go to: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22596556/ and open up the links at the bottom of the article in new tabs and see Slim lock up and then uncheck the excute scripts and restart Slim and then go back to the site and you will see how fast it opens.

Just noticed since turning off the scripts that the insert URL does not work in this posting:-)

Maybe you could turn on Slim scripts and then go to Control Panel and then to Internet Options and Security and Custom Level and try to figure out which option is causing the problem.

I did try this, but it made no difference. Slimbrowser still painfull slow, and memory leak issue seems to have got worse. IE7 still blindingly fast!

Hans
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by Hans » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:54 pm

Anyone who's experiencing the problem, are you using the In-Page Ad Filter, or the URL Filter? If so, and you turn it off, what happens?

BarryFS
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Re: Certain sites bring SB to a crawl

Post by BarryFS » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:54 pm

Makes no difference at all.

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